In reply to post on March 17 2018 at 06:42 by ANON541,
ANON541 Absolutely fine to disagree - and healthy! I will agree that there are a lot of people in social welfare work, counselling and therapy that are as you say 'woefully inadequate', but that does not mean that we can write off this area of help completely. As with the law of averages in everything, there is a range of good, not so good, incompetent and useless as well as excellent and highly capable. And we must realise too, that to get to a level of high competency does mean a lot of years with a lot of clients in order to get to that level. We can all look back on our early days with embarrassment at how incompetent we were when we started out at anything we put our hands too. The thing with cults, and cult leaders like Greg Baer, is that they tell people that ANY form of conventional counselling, therapy, psychotherapy, mental health support, social support, psychiatry etc. is totally useless. And this is often based on their own personal experience. Scientology, and other groups too, have a distinct dislike of anything to do with mental/emotional health therapy - believing it is evil, of the devil etc. But the reality is that it does work for a great number of people, just as much as it becomes a crutch for others, and is totally useless for others. There is no one size fits all as we are all different and unique. I am eternally grateful as I was extraordinarily lucky with my therapists.
However, some people have an aversion to anything psychological to begin with. They feel it is an intrusion into their private mind, their personal business. It is, but when you need help, you have to open up to someone. Better it a stranger in a safe and neutral setting than someone you know - for most of us!! They also DON'T want anyone to get 'in' to their mind and discover who they really are - maybe they are hiding the real dimensions of themselves and living a lie. Who knows! Sometimes people are against anyone actually getting into their mind and the root cause of their thoughts and behaviours - of someone knowing too much about them. You cannot be helped if you don't open up at some point. There are many techniques and methods used in psychology - and most of them are NOT about childhood and Freudian perspectives. I am sure that for some people, when they are undergoing some form of therapy and it turns out that they are discovering some home-truths about themselves (like they are narcissistic, psychopathic, sociopathic etc.) they wouldn't want this known by anyone and would go into denial about it. That denial can turn into a massive dislike of psychology and any form of psychological help. You also wouldn't want anyone to know very much about psychology either, in case they discover your secret about who you really are (in regards to being a sociopath, psychopath etc.). But a complete aversion to any form of clinical as well as social psychological therapy to help you get through some powerful issues would be detrimental to your own well being. I know that from first-hand experience. You have to let go and let people help you. And you know what? No one goes around telling everyone all about you - because it is all done under 'medical in-confidence' laws which protect your identity and health condition. Nothing to be scared of, and everything to gain. I know my parents generation still have problems and issues with accepting mental health as part of our human condition - and of it being just as, if not MORE, important than our physical health. Mental after all, refers merely to 'of the brain' and does not imply (as it did in generations past) madness and lunacy. Interestingly, reading several books on cults now, it seems that a percentage of cult survivors really do need to have conventional therapy to help them through the trauma of what they did, why they did stuff, discover who they are, get their power of self back again - and so on. Sometimes this is done in formal 1-1 therapy, but other times it is by being in support groups.
As I mentioned, there are many techniques used in counselling and therapy. I DID NOT want to have psychiatry used on me or indeed any Freudian techniques or inner child work done. My issues were all to do with adult life traumas. And while everything to a lesser or greater degree does relate in some way to our childhood (our childhood is still a part of us after all), I knew deep down that my issues did not relate specifically to childhood. I had to accept that I needed to be assessed first and then then best course of treatment would be allocated to me. I need not have feared, as it worked out that I did not need psychiatry. I also did not want to be medicated either. But it is STANDARD PRACTICE to be medicated when you are suicidal. I fought off so many different staff on this one. I found natural and harmless things to help me overcome episodes of extreme anxiety and panic, as well as depression. And because these things worked, they backed off and let me use them instead of medication. As I wanted to go through regression therapy - to re-live my harrowing experiences - I wanted to re-live them fully and painfully. I felt that being medicated and in some altered state of happiness I would not be able to fully regress and let out the trauma fully. They disagreed, but I got my way. But, I knew they would try to medicate me. I also knew I needed help, and if I didn't get it soon (at that point) then I would be sectioned. If that had happened I would have lost all control of my life, and I would not be writing this now. There is so much fear involved in opening yourself up to scrutiny so that you can be helped. Fear and shame, embarrassment and guilt, self-hatred - all sorts of stuff. But this is where the true help is to be found - as far as I am concerned. NOT with a cult group. But sadly, people have such strong fears about getting psychological help that they end up being open to the likes of cult groups - who will reel them in and cause more damage to them. It may all be hunky-dory at first, and the panacea to fixing their life. But as any cult survivor knows, when its all over (and it could be many years), not only are you left with the same issue having not been properly dealt with, but you now have more issues on top and you are worse off for the experience of it all. You've also lost time, family, friends, social life etc.
So, yes, I understand not wanting to go the psychology route, but there is far more harm to be done by following the cult route - plus you still have the same issues at the end of it all. Sometimes people don't understand that counselling and therapy is mainly 'people-centred' and that the therapist is there to steer and guide the client towards them healing themselves, and not being like a surgeon or a pill that 'fixes' things for us. I would rather the professionally trained, experienced workers who are qualified and registered in their field of practice work on me, rather than undertake to submit to the fraudulent practices of people posing as therapists (under various titles and guises) who can only do more harm than good.
Also, I too am that person with those family members with those conditions mentioned. And yes, I had to be separated from them in order to heal and recover from my trauma. They were unable to help me and were pushing me further and further into more and more self-harm as they said and did the wrong things. So yes, being separated from loved one's can be an essential part of the healing plan - but its always with the intention of the family being reunited again. In cults, and as I have seen with RL, it seems to be a permanent thing. It's all part of the clever strategy to get the person totally 'dependent' on RL for all emotional, moral, social and spiritual support in order to maintain a lifelong client. While RealLove states in its promotional materials that it 'eliminates fear' from peoples' lives, it actually does the reverse and creates far more fear instead. Fear of so many things and total reliance and dependence on RealLove to fill that space. And yes you are completely RIGHT - Greg teaches people to fail to accept their feelings and emotions, fail to learn anything from them, and instead to distract them from taking any sort of responsibility for what they say, do, react, attitude etc.
All I have intimated is that there is far more to be gained from proper professional work in the right hands - someone you feel comfortable with, with an approach that 'works' for you, rather than running off to a cult group to be healed. My experience with conventional therapy was healing and empowering (and saved my life too!) even though it separated me from family and loved ones for a while. Yet my experience in a cult group got me to see that NO healing or empowerment takes place at all. One will help you, the other will cause more damage to all areas of your life. I think of people in RealLove who have shared their accounts on both threads on this website - no spouse anymore, no brother/sister, no uncle/auntie, no cousin/neice/nephew, no granddad/grandma, no father! No mother! No friend! The person missing from weddings, funerals, engagements, 21sts, graduations, baby births, school shows, etc... that person is missing out too - even though while they are in the cult they don't believe they are. But they ARE. The devastation is tremendous to so many people. Going to therapy can remain private and confidential, while joining a cult group and all that goes with it is destructive. When people NEED that psychological help they are far more manipulate-able. It feels vile and sickening to see such amazing adult people totally manipulated, co-dependent, and disempowered in a cult group, when the counselling and therapeutic professionals have the priority of helping people to become whole, empowered, confident and capable individuals armed with tools to help and support them. (I am studying to be a counsellor ironically. Only a few years ago I was scared to death of them. Such incredible fear did I have!)
Thank you - you make really good points! You bring up really good stuff and food for thought.
ANON541 Absolutely fine to disagree - and healthy! I will agree that there are a lot of people in social welfare work, counselling and therapy that are as you say 'woefully inadequate', but that does not mean that we can write off this area of help completely. As with the law of averages in everything, there is a range of good, not so good, incompetent and useless as well as excellent and highly capable. And we must realise too, that to get to a level of high competency does mean a lot of years with a lot of clients in order to get to that level. We can all look back on our early days with embarrassment at how incompetent we were when we started out at anything we put our hands too. The thing with cults, and cult leaders like Greg Baer, is that they tell people that ANY form of conventional counselling, therapy, psychotherapy, mental health support, social support, psychiatry etc. is totally useless. And this is often based on their own personal experience. Scientology, and other groups too, have a distinct dislike of anything to do with mental/emotional health therapy - believing it is evil, of the devil etc. But the reality is that it does work for a great number of people, just as much as it becomes a crutch for others, and is totally useless for others. There is no one size fits all as we are all different and unique. I am eternally grateful as I was extraordinarily lucky with my therapists.
However, some people have an aversion to anything psychological to begin with. They feel it is an intrusion into their private mind, their personal business. It is, but when you need help, you have to open up to someone. Better it a stranger in a safe and neutral setting than someone you know - for most of us!! They also DON'T want anyone to get 'in' to their mind and discover who they really are - maybe they are hiding the real dimensions of themselves and living a lie. Who knows! Sometimes people are against anyone actually getting into their mind and the root cause of their thoughts and behaviours - of someone knowing too much about them. You cannot be helped if you don't open up at some point. There are many techniques and methods used in psychology - and most of them are NOT about childhood and Freudian perspectives. I am sure that for some people, when they are undergoing some form of therapy and it turns out that they are discovering some home-truths about themselves (like they are narcissistic, psychopathic, sociopathic etc.) they wouldn't want this known by anyone and would go into denial about it. That denial can turn into a massive dislike of psychology and any form of psychological help. You also wouldn't want anyone to know very much about psychology either, in case they discover your secret about who you really are (in regards to being a sociopath, psychopath etc.). But a complete aversion to any form of clinical as well as social psychological therapy to help you get through some powerful issues would be detrimental to your own well being. I know that from first-hand experience. You have to let go and let people help you. And you know what? No one goes around telling everyone all about you - because it is all done under 'medical in-confidence' laws which protect your identity and health condition. Nothing to be scared of, and everything to gain. I know my parents generation still have problems and issues with accepting mental health as part of our human condition - and of it being just as, if not MORE, important than our physical health. Mental after all, refers merely to 'of the brain' and does not imply (as it did in generations past) madness and lunacy. Interestingly, reading several books on cults now, it seems that a percentage of cult survivors really do need to have conventional therapy to help them through the trauma of what they did, why they did stuff, discover who they are, get their power of self back again - and so on. Sometimes this is done in formal 1-1 therapy, but other times it is by being in support groups.
As I mentioned, there are many techniques used in counselling and therapy. I DID NOT want to have psychiatry used on me or indeed any Freudian techniques or inner child work done. My issues were all to do with adult life traumas. And while everything to a lesser or greater degree does relate in some way to our childhood (our childhood is still a part of us after all), I knew deep down that my issues did not relate specifically to childhood. I had to accept that I needed to be assessed first and then then best course of treatment would be allocated to me. I need not have feared, as it worked out that I did not need psychiatry. I also did not want to be medicated either. But it is STANDARD PRACTICE to be medicated when you are suicidal. I fought off so many different staff on this one. I found natural and harmless things to help me overcome episodes of extreme anxiety and panic, as well as depression. And because these things worked, they backed off and let me use them instead of medication. As I wanted to go through regression therapy - to re-live my harrowing experiences - I wanted to re-live them fully and painfully. I felt that being medicated and in some altered state of happiness I would not be able to fully regress and let out the trauma fully. They disagreed, but I got my way. But, I knew they would try to medicate me. I also knew I needed help, and if I didn't get it soon (at that point) then I would be sectioned. If that had happened I would have lost all control of my life, and I would not be writing this now. There is so much fear involved in opening yourself up to scrutiny so that you can be helped. Fear and shame, embarrassment and guilt, self-hatred - all sorts of stuff. But this is where the true help is to be found - as far as I am concerned. NOT with a cult group. But sadly, people have such strong fears about getting psychological help that they end up being open to the likes of cult groups - who will reel them in and cause more damage to them. It may all be hunky-dory at first, and the panacea to fixing their life. But as any cult survivor knows, when its all over (and it could be many years), not only are you left with the same issue having not been properly dealt with, but you now have more issues on top and you are worse off for the experience of it all. You've also lost time, family, friends, social life etc.
So, yes, I understand not wanting to go the psychology route, but there is far more harm to be done by following the cult route - plus you still have the same issues at the end of it all. Sometimes people don't understand that counselling and therapy is mainly 'people-centred' and that the therapist is there to steer and guide the client towards them healing themselves, and not being like a surgeon or a pill that 'fixes' things for us. I would rather the professionally trained, experienced workers who are qualified and registered in their field of practice work on me, rather than undertake to submit to the fraudulent practices of people posing as therapists (under various titles and guises) who can only do more harm than good.
Also, I too am that person with those family members with those conditions mentioned. And yes, I had to be separated from them in order to heal and recover from my trauma. They were unable to help me and were pushing me further and further into more and more self-harm as they said and did the wrong things. So yes, being separated from loved one's can be an essential part of the healing plan - but its always with the intention of the family being reunited again. In cults, and as I have seen with RL, it seems to be a permanent thing. It's all part of the clever strategy to get the person totally 'dependent' on RL for all emotional, moral, social and spiritual support in order to maintain a lifelong client. While RealLove states in its promotional materials that it 'eliminates fear' from peoples' lives, it actually does the reverse and creates far more fear instead. Fear of so many things and total reliance and dependence on RealLove to fill that space. And yes you are completely RIGHT - Greg teaches people to fail to accept their feelings and emotions, fail to learn anything from them, and instead to distract them from taking any sort of responsibility for what they say, do, react, attitude etc.
All I have intimated is that there is far more to be gained from proper professional work in the right hands - someone you feel comfortable with, with an approach that 'works' for you, rather than running off to a cult group to be healed. My experience with conventional therapy was healing and empowering (and saved my life too!) even though it separated me from family and loved ones for a while. Yet my experience in a cult group got me to see that NO healing or empowerment takes place at all. One will help you, the other will cause more damage to all areas of your life. I think of people in RealLove who have shared their accounts on both threads on this website - no spouse anymore, no brother/sister, no uncle/auntie, no cousin/neice/nephew, no granddad/grandma, no father! No mother! No friend! The person missing from weddings, funerals, engagements, 21sts, graduations, baby births, school shows, etc... that person is missing out too - even though while they are in the cult they don't believe they are. But they ARE. The devastation is tremendous to so many people. Going to therapy can remain private and confidential, while joining a cult group and all that goes with it is destructive. When people NEED that psychological help they are far more manipulate-able. It feels vile and sickening to see such amazing adult people totally manipulated, co-dependent, and disempowered in a cult group, when the counselling and therapeutic professionals have the priority of helping people to become whole, empowered, confident and capable individuals armed with tools to help and support them. (I am studying to be a counsellor ironically. Only a few years ago I was scared to death of them. Such incredible fear did I have!)
Thank you - you make really good points! You bring up really good stuff and food for thought.