Dane, you are seriously asking the wrong people for help. Please call a suicide hotline ASAP.
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Re: Suicidal from LGAT
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Re: Suicidal from LGAT
I’ve been suicidal most of my life. Been inside mental hospitals. Have had years of therapy. I’m done with professional help. It’s never done me any good. A suicidal hotline surely won’t either. The harm I’ve experienced from Choice center and the constant reminder of it through my sister is only the tip of the iceberg of my problems. I’ve struggled with borderline personality disorder my entire life. Experienced severe trauma. Etc etc. I have OCD, ADD, PTSD. And guess what? I’m getting married in two fucking months and all I can think about is how I’d be better off dead. This forum was a way to vent and maybe get some others to say hey, I went through this too. Yet, all the people on here that say these places are harmless and I’m just living in fear only serve to perpetuate how I always feel crazy and nobody ever believes me, even my own sister. Peace.
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Collecting stories of marginalised/disabled/neurodivergent LGAT cult survivors for ICSA conference presentation - deadline March 27th!
Hi All,
I am doing a presentation at the ICSA conference this year on the vulnerabilities of being multiply-marginalised and neurodivergent based on my own experiences as a racialised queer and neurodivergent (ASD and ADHD) person who has been in two cults (Landmark and One Taste) for 8 years total, see:[cultrecovery101.com].
It would be great to represent and collect some stories from marginalised people who have experienced a negative impact from doing Landmark or any other LGAT training, especially as result of their marginalized identities (whether queer, Black, hispanic, Asian, GRT, disabled, Muslim, Jewish, trans, non-binary etc, etc.)
You could either send me a message, reply here or we could chat on Zoom, via email, phone whatever is more comfortable or convenient.
I would of course keep the quotes anonymous unless you were happy to have your name attached (even if just first name, age or cult you were in etc).
Be great to hear from you as would love my presentation to really capture a variety of first-hand marginalised cult survivor experiences and not just mine,this is a great opportunity to start decolonizing the cult specialist/recovery space and having our voices heard, deadline to get back is 27th March (as need to have recorded presentation by 31st March).
Thanks very much!
Priscilla
I am doing a presentation at the ICSA conference this year on the vulnerabilities of being multiply-marginalised and neurodivergent based on my own experiences as a racialised queer and neurodivergent (ASD and ADHD) person who has been in two cults (Landmark and One Taste) for 8 years total, see:[cultrecovery101.com].
It would be great to represent and collect some stories from marginalised people who have experienced a negative impact from doing Landmark or any other LGAT training, especially as result of their marginalized identities (whether queer, Black, hispanic, Asian, GRT, disabled, Muslim, Jewish, trans, non-binary etc, etc.)
You could either send me a message, reply here or we could chat on Zoom, via email, phone whatever is more comfortable or convenient.
I would of course keep the quotes anonymous unless you were happy to have your name attached (even if just first name, age or cult you were in etc).
Be great to hear from you as would love my presentation to really capture a variety of first-hand marginalised cult survivor experiences and not just mine,this is a great opportunity to start decolonizing the cult specialist/recovery space and having our voices heard, deadline to get back is 27th March (as need to have recorded presentation by 31st March).
Thanks very much!
Priscilla
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Re: Collecting stories of marginalised/disabled/neurodivergent LGAT cult survivors for ICSA conference presentation - deadline March 27th!
Hi all,
The deadline has been extended so if anyone did want to talk to me let me know. I need to submit it by April 7th so ideally would need to hear back by April 5th.
Thanks!
The deadline has been extended so if anyone did want to talk to me let me know. I need to submit it by April 7th so ideally would need to hear back by April 5th.
Thanks!
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Re: Suicidal from LGAT
Hi Dane,
I really hope I'm not too late in writing this. So sorry to hear about what you're going through, please get support where you can. Don't be shy about reaching out to friends/people you trust if you have any, have you spoken to your wife?
Congratulations on the wedding too! I think that shows you there are still things worth living for even though it really may not seem like it at the moment.
Have you tried joining the International Cultic Studies Association? They have quite a few resources and events for cult survivors on there which could be helpful and they have a page listing of available cult survivor support groups, at least one of which is free:[www.icsahome.com]
I strongly recommend that if you can't afford a therapist or one-to-one help you try to join a peer support group or get involved in some sort of community group whether that be something to do with an activity that you enjoy and makes you feel good or something to do with mental health etc (could be that a group for people with BPD/complex ND diagnoses or who have experienced sexual abuse may be helpful too, there's a lot of different ones on Facebook) because that would hopefully be able to make you feel less alone with it all.
Whatever you do please don't suffer alone and understand that whatever you're going through, this too will pass. Even if it feels in the moment like it never will. Believe me I've been there and it's a horrible place to be but it can get better it can just take a lot of work sometimes to do the things we know will benefit us. And if you're anything like me you can easily get impatient and despondent and think it's all hopeless.
And please don't let some ridiculous people on here who are cult apologist trolls and have their own issues, put you off from reaching out here too. You did a really brave thing by doing that, don't let anyone convince you otherwise. I know what it's like to feel like you have no other outlets sometimes.
Final thing some books that may or may not help (haven't read all of them):
Because I'm Bad by Lily Bailey (memoir about dealing with OCD)
When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron (free on PDFdrive.com)
Embracing Your Inner Critic by Hal and Sidra Stone
Complex PTSD by Paul Walker (also on PDF Drive I think, but beware has a propensity to dismiss other neurodivergent diagnoses a bit too much)
Reasons to Stay Alive by Matt Haig
The Recovery Letters by Olivia Sagan and James Withey
Coping with BPD: DBT and CBT Skills to Soothe the Symptoms of Boderline Personality Disorder by Blaise Aguirre and Gillian Galen.
Hope that was helpful in some way and keep going. Virtual hugs.
Priscilla x
I really hope I'm not too late in writing this. So sorry to hear about what you're going through, please get support where you can. Don't be shy about reaching out to friends/people you trust if you have any, have you spoken to your wife?
Congratulations on the wedding too! I think that shows you there are still things worth living for even though it really may not seem like it at the moment.
Have you tried joining the International Cultic Studies Association? They have quite a few resources and events for cult survivors on there which could be helpful and they have a page listing of available cult survivor support groups, at least one of which is free:[www.icsahome.com]
I strongly recommend that if you can't afford a therapist or one-to-one help you try to join a peer support group or get involved in some sort of community group whether that be something to do with an activity that you enjoy and makes you feel good or something to do with mental health etc (could be that a group for people with BPD/complex ND diagnoses or who have experienced sexual abuse may be helpful too, there's a lot of different ones on Facebook) because that would hopefully be able to make you feel less alone with it all.
Whatever you do please don't suffer alone and understand that whatever you're going through, this too will pass. Even if it feels in the moment like it never will. Believe me I've been there and it's a horrible place to be but it can get better it can just take a lot of work sometimes to do the things we know will benefit us. And if you're anything like me you can easily get impatient and despondent and think it's all hopeless.
And please don't let some ridiculous people on here who are cult apologist trolls and have their own issues, put you off from reaching out here too. You did a really brave thing by doing that, don't let anyone convince you otherwise. I know what it's like to feel like you have no other outlets sometimes.
Final thing some books that may or may not help (haven't read all of them):
Because I'm Bad by Lily Bailey (memoir about dealing with OCD)
When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron (free on PDFdrive.com)
Embracing Your Inner Critic by Hal and Sidra Stone
Complex PTSD by Paul Walker (also on PDF Drive I think, but beware has a propensity to dismiss other neurodivergent diagnoses a bit too much)
Reasons to Stay Alive by Matt Haig
The Recovery Letters by Olivia Sagan and James Withey
Coping with BPD: DBT and CBT Skills to Soothe the Symptoms of Boderline Personality Disorder by Blaise Aguirre and Gillian Galen.
Hope that was helpful in some way and keep going. Virtual hugs.
Priscilla x
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Re: Suicidal from LGAT
Hey Priscilla,
Thank you for the really thought out and detailed response. I appreciate it. I am still here. I have not physically harmed myself. I do think about it often. Yes, I do talk to the ones closest to me that I can trust. My wife is my biggest supporter and we regularly talk about our feelings. She is amazing. I am definitely not alone and have a few others too that I go to regularly to vent to. I am not keeping this bottled up. I simply can't go back to therapy. I am open to other options for support, though. I will look into the books and groups you suggested. Thank you again for your support. Obviously, not everyone on here is that way. I will do my best to take care of myself and work through my shit. Thank you and take care.
Best,
Dane
Thank you for the really thought out and detailed response. I appreciate it. I am still here. I have not physically harmed myself. I do think about it often. Yes, I do talk to the ones closest to me that I can trust. My wife is my biggest supporter and we regularly talk about our feelings. She is amazing. I am definitely not alone and have a few others too that I go to regularly to vent to. I am not keeping this bottled up. I simply can't go back to therapy. I am open to other options for support, though. I will look into the books and groups you suggested. Thank you again for your support. Obviously, not everyone on here is that way. I will do my best to take care of myself and work through my shit. Thank you and take care.
Best,
Dane
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Re: Suicidal from LGAT
I am just now realizing you were one of the people interviewed in that "On Belief" podcast about LGAT's. That was INCREDIBLY helpful to listen to. Thank you kindly for also being brave and being a part of that. Take care.
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Re: Suicidal from LGAT
I was wrong! You were part of the neurodiversity podcast. Sorry, I confused the two! I will make sure to listen to that one as well!
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Re: Suicidal from LGAT
Lastly, I just saw you are looking for stories about ND people for your talk at the conference on cults and if you need someone I would be happy to talk. I am not part of any marginalized group though. Straight white dude here! I simply deal with ND diagnoses such as BPD etc. Thanks! Sorry for the obsessive responses, I think I am just overwhelmed by your incredibly helpful response above. Take care.
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Re: Suicidal from LGAT
This theme is worth spreading. It would be nice to make an opinion essay example and describe everything in a detailed way.
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Re: Suicidal from LGAT
Do you think I should write about my specific experiences there in more detail?
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Gratitude Training Attendee Murders Child, Grandmother and Self
This past weekend Gratitude Training Graduate, Timothy Wall, entered a Publix and killed a one-year child, and a grandmother before turning the gun on himself.
Here is the Article : Publix murder-suicide: Grandmother tried to fight off man in seemingly random attack
On their private Gratitude Training Group they responded as follows:
"So sorry to share this sad news. Tim Wall, ML9 is no longer with us. I will spare the tragic details as the info is in the article below for those who want to know. Many of you in this community knew him, especially the early grads. He often door guarded in West Palm Beach. Sending love and prayers to the family of those killed and to all of you who knew them and Tim. And to anyone out there struggling with mental illness. I don't want to make this a political post, but I do wish there were more resources for people struggling with mental illness to get them the help they need (and to reduce the stigmas around it). And I am grateful that my wife and mother-in-law's guardian angels detoured them as they both were close to being there as it happened."
To the trainers and owners of Gratitude Training: Jo Englesson, Francine Rahe, Chris DeSanti, Ray Blanchard, Michael DeSanti, Shane Kohler, Barry Warren, Kris Garloff and Ryan Soave,
Between murders, a slew of suicides, countless 'accidental' deaths and now this... these are your results.
Here is the Article : Publix murder-suicide: Grandmother tried to fight off man in seemingly random attack
On their private Gratitude Training Group they responded as follows:
"So sorry to share this sad news. Tim Wall, ML9 is no longer with us. I will spare the tragic details as the info is in the article below for those who want to know. Many of you in this community knew him, especially the early grads. He often door guarded in West Palm Beach. Sending love and prayers to the family of those killed and to all of you who knew them and Tim. And to anyone out there struggling with mental illness. I don't want to make this a political post, but I do wish there were more resources for people struggling with mental illness to get them the help they need (and to reduce the stigmas around it). And I am grateful that my wife and mother-in-law's guardian angels detoured them as they both were close to being there as it happened."
To the trainers and owners of Gratitude Training: Jo Englesson, Francine Rahe, Chris DeSanti, Ray Blanchard, Michael DeSanti, Shane Kohler, Barry Warren, Kris Garloff and Ryan Soave,
Between murders, a slew of suicides, countless 'accidental' deaths and now this... these are your results.
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Re: Quest (Johannesburg South Africa)
One of the branches / roots / offshoots of Quest based in Durban is being investigated by the Human Rights Commission (HRC) for employment contract abuses.
The group is part of an insurance sales company called “The Ultimate” and is run by Royee Baruch, who also ran Joyspring and Turning Point. His father, Baruch Banai, trained the Quest leaders who then broke away and formed their own group. Quest has now shut down and last I heard the daughters were running similar courses in Cape Town.
Staff turn to HRC to save them from 'cult-like' course
Above article was also published elsewhere on this site.
This one below has good additional research on owners of The Ultimate, and how non disclosure forms are used.
Company accused of brainwashing employees
I’m very grateful to Rick Ross & co for keeping track of these groups over such a long time span.
Also thank you to everyone for kind and helpful comments and updates on this thread…
The group is part of an insurance sales company called “The Ultimate” and is run by Royee Baruch, who also ran Joyspring and Turning Point. His father, Baruch Banai, trained the Quest leaders who then broke away and formed their own group. Quest has now shut down and last I heard the daughters were running similar courses in Cape Town.
Staff turn to HRC to save them from 'cult-like' course
Above article was also published elsewhere on this site.
This one below has good additional research on owners of The Ultimate, and how non disclosure forms are used.
Company accused of brainwashing employees
I’m very grateful to Rick Ross & co for keeping track of these groups over such a long time span.
Also thank you to everyone for kind and helpful comments and updates on this thread…
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Re: Suicidal from LGAT
Hi Dane, Hope you're still reading here and I'd like to give you my small bit of knowledge. I imagine most people don't think much of the long-term psychological damage that can persist decades after you've left a cult or that, if you've sought out counsel or "deprogramming" you've can or should have "gotten over" the sad, sick number they can do on your mind. I liked how Leah Remini explained how much more difficult it was for her having been born into scientology and not having any other perspective growing up. They all use a similar play-book, and that one does a deep dive into the very most elemental of your beliefs, convictions, assumptions, impressions, and ways of assessing and evaluating things. They are cynical and exploitative users who find whatever leverage they can to take control of your time, your money, your life. The more you study them, the more evil they reveal. For many it's a long, slow slog out of what was a quick and slippery slide into their clutches. I'd like to think Val Kilmer nailed it when he said: "God want us to walk. The devil sends a limo."
Ellen
Ellen
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Re: Suicidal from LGAT
"God want us to walk. The devil sends a limo."
There's so much wisdom packed into that.
What's so seductive for us about the Devil/LGATs "limousine" offer?
* Wow factor - promise of an amazing life
* Flattery - you are special, the program's special and only special people can tough it out and get the hidden message
* Convenience - you're not stuck in traffic, you can "get there" faster
* Surrender personal autonomy to a charismatic stranger. You are so thrilled by the promise, glitter, glamor and recommendations from friends that you don't think to check whether the driver has insurance or a criminal record
*If you're born into the limo (cult) lifestyle, you know nothing else. You grow up scared of living any other way -- and you sent taught the life skills needed to live any other way
There's so much wisdom packed into that.
What's so seductive for us about the Devil/LGATs "limousine" offer?
* Wow factor - promise of an amazing life
* Flattery - you are special, the program's special and only special people can tough it out and get the hidden message
* Convenience - you're not stuck in traffic, you can "get there" faster
* Surrender personal autonomy to a charismatic stranger. You are so thrilled by the promise, glitter, glamor and recommendations from friends that you don't think to check whether the driver has insurance or a criminal record
*If you're born into the limo (cult) lifestyle, you know nothing else. You grow up scared of living any other way -- and you sent taught the life skills needed to live any other way
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Lifespring Alumna Influences SCOTUS
OMG -- She claims to understand cults and cult mind-control but apparently embraces Q-Anon. News at 11:00
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Re: Help International, The House of Help - Raja Exposed!
Hello,
Raja is still operating in Australia under the business name
"The Help Network".
He will continue to operate until his luck runs out.
What makes him dangerous is that he uses hypnosis, sleep and food deprivation, the lure of Pan Gia (Paradise on Earth) peace etc and the bait he can teach you to improve your financial situation.
His goal is to break down your identity and to build it up to serve him. Giving him your money to further commit you to a life of imprisonment.
That's what loss of your identity means. Losing the very essence of who you are. Becoming a mere fragment of you.
How do you stop him?
I've asked this question to myself many times. The answer I've come up with is:
When he breaks the law!
How do you convince the authorities he's using psychological techniques he has no business in using?
Harming people.
Justice is rarely served. This is the sad truth.
However I do believe we all reap what we sow.
I wish you all the best. Live your best life. Continue healing.
WA
Raja is still operating in Australia under the business name
"The Help Network".
He will continue to operate until his luck runs out.
What makes him dangerous is that he uses hypnosis, sleep and food deprivation, the lure of Pan Gia (Paradise on Earth) peace etc and the bait he can teach you to improve your financial situation.
His goal is to break down your identity and to build it up to serve him. Giving him your money to further commit you to a life of imprisonment.
That's what loss of your identity means. Losing the very essence of who you are. Becoming a mere fragment of you.
How do you stop him?
I've asked this question to myself many times. The answer I've come up with is:
When he breaks the law!
How do you convince the authorities he's using psychological techniques he has no business in using?
Harming people.
Justice is rarely served. This is the sad truth.
However I do believe we all reap what we sow.
I wish you all the best. Live your best life. Continue healing.
WA
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The Help Network - Raja Bharut
Hello To Whom it May Concern,
Raja Bharut is still operating in Australia under the business name
The Help Network.
It used to be The House of Help. The same thing. I have written several posts under that title.
He became an Australian citizen unfortunately. Continuing what he does best. Breaking down the personalities of his recruits with hypnosis and psychological techniques. Very dangerous.
Once you are under his mind control you will be told to give him your money. Spend your money for his benefit to create a false paradise "Pan Gaia".
The lure is teaching you to be rich. Get rich. However he's the one getting rich.
Leaving you a fragment of yourself. Stealing your identity and your well earned money.
He vampires your energy. As he gets stronger from your energy, you bend to his will. Sucking the very soul and essence of who you are.
This happened to me.
I left because I had to heal and reclaim my identity. It was painful. It was essential.
No-one has the answers. Only you can find what you're searching for within.
All the best in your journey of healing and living your best life.
Raja Bharut is still operating in Australia under the business name
The Help Network.
It used to be The House of Help. The same thing. I have written several posts under that title.
He became an Australian citizen unfortunately. Continuing what he does best. Breaking down the personalities of his recruits with hypnosis and psychological techniques. Very dangerous.
Once you are under his mind control you will be told to give him your money. Spend your money for his benefit to create a false paradise "Pan Gaia".
The lure is teaching you to be rich. Get rich. However he's the one getting rich.
Leaving you a fragment of yourself. Stealing your identity and your well earned money.
He vampires your energy. As he gets stronger from your energy, you bend to his will. Sucking the very soul and essence of who you are.
This happened to me.
I left because I had to heal and reclaim my identity. It was painful. It was essential.
No-one has the answers. Only you can find what you're searching for within.
All the best in your journey of healing and living your best life.
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Re: The Help Network - Raja Bharut
Correction Everyone.
It's "My Help Network". Raja has changed the name. Wrote "The Help Book".
Adapting and changing all the time, but still the same old stale thing.
It's "My Help Network". Raja has changed the name. Wrote "The Help Book".
Adapting and changing all the time, but still the same old stale thing.
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My Help Network
Correction Everyone.
Raja has changed the name to
"My Help Network".
Still the same methods and con-tent.
Raja has changed the name to
"My Help Network".
Still the same methods and con-tent.
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