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Re: Klemmer & Associates

November 7, 2017, 9:55 am
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Brian Klemmer is the founder of an LGAT called Klemmer and Associates. His company has since passed on to daughter Krystal Zellmer and Kimberly Zink as President of Klemmer and Associates. If Brian Klemmer's way of running a business which is "My way or highway - no arguments" is passed on to Zink and Zellemr, Klemmer and Associates is doomed.

His books - Compassionate Samurai,is mainly a marketing brochure for his Personal Mastery, Advanced Leadership classes - where participants experience extreme emotional highs and lows, and thus euphoria towards the end of the seminar so they are in a good state to BUY MORE SEMINARS,

What you have "purchased" - is your responsibility to create. Slick eh? There is always something wrong with where you are - so buy the next seminar as THE ANSWER!!

Klemmer and Associates Personal Mastery is a long con - SCAM - leveraging off the imperfect nature of us as human beings - and his mass marathon Advance Leadership - is the answer. and you earn the privilege of being a "Klemmer Compassionate Samurai"

That's the gist of it - and the participants feel a creepy loyalty to the facilitators...till about 4-5 months out and they descend, back to being ordinary in an extraordinary world. Sad Actually.

Dkip the drama and avoid Klemmer and Associates Classes, books, tapes, webinars.
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Re: Klemmer and Associates Champions Workshop

November 8, 2017, 10:29 am
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Here is how a LGAT like Klemmer and Associates,PSI Seminars spread and takes advantage of their paying clients !!Remember you are a client not their employee!!

Towards the end of the LGAT class like Personal Mastery or Advanced Leadership from Klemmer, you are likely to feel euphoric. Likely to feel indebted to "klemmer" or the "facilitator" for opening your eyes and your awareness level is high and feel connected to other members of the class.

You will be invited to spread your new found "leadership" role and be "Bold" to advance the Klemmer mission ..and a world that works with no one left out or whatever...thats the "pitch" for you to participate. Don't fall for it. They do this with every class, with everyone that Facilitator has a connection with..its the facilitator's role and job to do this.

You will be asked by the facilitator to demonstrate "Samurai Leadership", by hosting "Champion's Workshops for Klemmer, you are promosied/invited to be personally coached by the facilitator you may feel indebted to...and you spend a LOT of time and energy building a Champion's workshop in exchange for a discount to say, Advanced Leadership or other classes for your family. You have an opportunity to "make a difference", demonstrate leadership" blah blah..and you end up making calls to your friends and families...running around and losing focus..

That is how you help LGATs spread - Word of mouth - friends, families, co-workers!

Pretty soon you will be running around with your mouth asking your friends and families...: - " Are you happy with where you are in life?
Don't you want more and different?

those types of conversations subtly imply - they are not happy, dissatisfied, not good enough, not dreaming big...who are you to decide that for them????? ITs a deficient model of conversation - and Klemmer uses it a LOT! Why would you want to communicate with a subtle" Not enough" to your friends and loved ones?

Think - focus - get on with your life. Don't get sucked into more classes or group think and group identity with being a "Compassionate Samurai".

Lots of achievers all over the world have NEVER heard of Klemmer and associates and their lives are GREAT!!

Klemmer and Associates has plenty of money, they claim to know how to "enroll" ,"sell, cause people to take positive action. Let KLEMMER market their own seminars with their own time and money. Thats their business. Let Klemmer's staff build Champion's workshops.
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Re: Sleep Deprivation is part of the LGAT destabilization process

November 8, 2017, 10:46 pm
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Yes, and when they have you in the sleep-deprived state, they engage you in conversations that seem designed to tie your mind in knots more than anything else. I never saw any brilliant, "bolt of lightening" solutions offered up.

If you were frustrated in achieving a goal, the solution was often to change or redefine the goal. The conversations seemed to drift away from your original intent. It seems to make sense when you're exhausted, but after sleeping on it, you would realize that the "possibility" you created under the guidance of the people at L.E. is not something that you would even want.
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What happens at an LGAT graduation / free basic intro seminar? It's creepy. (PSI Seminars)

November 8, 2017, 11:26 pm
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TL;DR: If a friend or loved one invites you to a graduation ceremony at PSI Seminars (or other LGAT), you may want to decline. It's a carefully staged hour-long session based on artificial shame, guilt, and commitment. PSI's aim is for you to make a substantial financial and time obligation based only on the emotions they want you to feel, without critical assessment.

Details: I attended a "Free PSI Basic Introductory Seminar". Everyone in attendance were either graduates of the PSI Basic program, PSI staff, or friends/family of graduates. The MC had each group stand up for applause and adoration. But you could tell who was who before that. The graduates were wide-eyed, wearing an overly enthusiastic gaze, the staff had a paternal vibe, overlooking their flock, while the guests seemed confused, waiting for an explanation.

After a short introduction, the instructor of the graduating class walked to the stage. He had the style and flair of a church preacher, cycling his content between three main goals:

1) Inspire group cohesion: He asked yes/no questions that everyone would agree with. "You're either living the life you want to live, or you're settling for less. Am I right?" or "Do you ever start something but you don't have the energy to finish it?" Everyone would agree in unison, particularly the graduates.

He would also inject jokes, often self-deprecating but in good taste. Sometimes the laugh from graduates was alarmingly loud, or robotic. "....HA!...HA!...HA!" At one point, the instructor (clearly a man with genetic baldness) said, "I promise you, we're not a cult. I shave my head on my own accord." It received genuine laughs, even from the guests.

2) Obtain and maintain a commitment: Before he described the course benefits, he asked if we ever lie to ourselves. We all did. He asked everyone if they like being lied to. No one does. Then he emphasized that that it's absurd that we lie to ourselves, knowing how it feels. He then went straight into getting the audience to promise that they'd all at "least listen with an open mind" to his presentation. He would bring up honoring commitments several more times.

3) Emphasize how the guests are loved and are special: After asking the students to describe the course in one word ("Amazing!" "Indescribable!" "Life-changing!"), he said that we must be special since our friends and family would invite us to take part in their graduation. Our friends/family love us, and they want us to be just as happy as they are.

One graduate was nearly manic when describing his success, as if he took a bump of speed or cocaine. He fumbled his words, stuttering in excitement. The instructor took control over the discussion and brought it back into focus quite quickly.

The "content" of the seminar was very thin, talking about how there are things we know we know, we know we don't know, we don't know we know, and we don't know we don't know. It mostly centered on making us commit to listen to our friends/family's experience at the seminar, laugh and agree in unison, ending with asking the guests to ask a question. "Turn to who invited you and ask 'Why do you want me to take this course?'"

As I had arrived alone and had nothing to guilt, shame, or commit to, I wasn't phased by the situation. But I could see the emotion in all the friends/family members' eyes as I left. Many were looking side-to-side, or down, as the graduate expressed their love and confidence about how good the course is.

As I left, one of the senior staff locked her eyes at me and said, "Hello, [NAME]." It was incredibly cold. It felt like she saying "You don't belong here. You need to leave."

Or possibly she was an incredibly cold and icy person. But it was creepy and I left.

I can understand why people sign up for these seminars. The graduates have infectious enthusiasm and I believe that they believe in its effectiveness. Even the instructor seemed like a good guy who believed in his product. It's very convincing, despite being toxic.

That's how they get you. They used your loved ones to guilt you into committing to the program, and once you've taken it, you believe it too (despite no evidence of its effectiveness). It's a mind virus.
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Re: Manipulating the room's environment

November 9, 2017, 9:32 am
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It was the devious calculation of these methods which I found most disturbing when I first discovered them back in 2010 via this forum.

Throughout the first Forum weekend, our course leader kept saying - "you're going to pop on Monday afternoon."

I had no idea what he meant until I experienced a natural dopamine high induced by all these techniques to stress out my nervous system over those 3 days.

If you had told me in advance that this was possible, I would not have believed you but it did happen to me. That rainy Monday in March, the world look beautiful and I wanted to hug everybody. And others said how well I looked which surprised me as I was at a low point in my life.

The experience was pleasant but also unnerving because I instinctively knew something wasn't right.

And it is during this state that they encourage you to make life changing and risky decisions.

Beware folks. That is not a good way to make choices which can affect the rest of your life.

I was lucky that I didn't do that but the pressure was on me to do that.
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Social media Addiction used to enhance LGATs after seminar?

November 11, 2017, 8:21 am
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Sean Parker, ex-President of Facebook has publicly admitted
that FB from the beginning, long long ago, intentionally
designed its site to exploit human psychology - and diddle
neurotransmitters.

Sean Parker and other Silicon Valley leaders would never, ever have
wanted their products used to enhance and entrench indoctrination
into exploitative groups.

But this is something now worth looking at -- by any human being who uses
a smartphone.

We already know that terrorists are successfully recruiting and radicalizing
people via social media.

Those who designed social media to be not only attractive but addictive never
in the beginning intended that a group such as ISIS benefit from using Facebook or Smartphone technology.

But this is what happened.

Those of us seeking to free ourselves from exploitative groups and gurus
not only have to combat the pervasive influence of the indoctrination
loaded into us during LGAT workshops and toxic meditation retreats;
We have to remove all traces of those entities from our Facebook pages and
from our Smartphones.

Those social media products were designed to be attractive and trigger
compulsive usage. What a way to enhance the lingering impact of any
indoctrination process. The group can get at you 24-7 after you've gone home from the seminar.

Quote

Ex-Facebook president Sean Parker: site made to exploit human 'vulnerability'

Site’s founding president, who became a billionaire thanks to the company, says: ‘God only knows what it’s doing to our children’s brains’

[www.theguardian.com]

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Parker, whose stake in Facebook made him a billionaire, criticized the social networking giant at an Axios event in Philadelphia this week.

[www.axios.com]

Now the founder and chair of the Parker Institute for Cancer Immunotherapy, Parker was there to speak about advances in cancer therapies. However, he took the time to provide some insight into the early thinking at Facebook at a time when social media companies face intense scrutiny from lawmakers over their power and influence.

Parker described how in the early days of Facebook people would tell him they weren’t on social media because they valued their real-life interactions.

“And I would say, ‘OK. You know, you will be,’” he said.

“I don’t know if I really understood the consequences of what I was saying,” he added, pointing to “unintended consequences” that arise when a network grows to have more than 2 billion users.

“It literally changes your relationship with society, with each other. It probably interferes with productivity in weird ways. God only knows what it’s doing to our children’s brains,” he said.

He explained that when Facebook was being developed the objective was: “How do we consume as much of your time and conscious attention as possible?” It was this mindset that led to the creation of features such as the “like” button that would give users “a little dopamine hit” to encourage them to upload more content.

“It’s a social-validation feedback loop … exactly the kind of thing that a hacker like myself would come up with, because you’re exploiting a vulnerability in human psychology.”

From a former Silicon Valley engineer, now training to be a neurosurgeon:

Quote


Corboy:

More and more, we are ready to recognize the extent to which our
behavior and decision making is being affected by social media



Time to take this new insight and apply it to methods used by LGATs.
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Re: PSI Seminars: Legal Action?

November 11, 2017, 10:15 am
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KDAG: Some other LGAT companies to be aware of are Klemmer and Associates, Insight, Impact , LifeQuest, LifeSpring.

Klemmer and Associates focuses on Church Groups with "the Quickening" seminar. All follow the vulnerability/repetition for messages and pressure/release so you have this endorphin high induced through experiential exercises and marathon sessions.The Samurai Game and Lifeboat are examples that Klemmer does in Advanced Leadership trainings

The endorphin high then manifests itself in testimonials and further recruiting - so the recruits of the LGATS are the ones spreading and building the classes. Example of endorphin high testimonials can be seen on Klemmer Google Reviews where the graduates talk about "teachings", "real deal","this work", "deal with my stuff" - creepy. Google Klemmer and Associates and you will see the google reviews on the right, and the Klemmer cult education warnings in the regular search box.

Thats how LGATS like PSI and Klemmer and Associates, Brian Klemmer learned these LGAT methods from PSI Seminars, penetrate into tightly knit communities like families, companies and network marketing teams.

Families against Cult teaching is initiating a complaint or an investigation into PSI Seminars cult methods, maybe they will get around to the other LGATs like Klemmer and Associates or Insight Trainings?
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Re: PSI Seminars: Legal Action?

November 11, 2017, 2:54 pm
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Truth2Myth,

I am staying away from all of them.
I have also become almost hyper-aware of the difference between and LGAT/cult, and other, "ordinary" metaphysical and spiritual teachers. I can "feel" it without even having to think about it. I then confirm with facts.


I had a teacher for years, (before my LGAT experience), who used meditation, chanting, and other typical metaphysical techniques, but not cult tactics. It might have even been my history with her that gave me some measure of protection, because when I got to L.E., I was not blown away by these things, (they were already familiar). Some of their teachings dovetailed nicely with what she (and many others) taught, but then there were places where they split off and went 180° from what the traditional metaphysicians teach.

There were many things going on at L.E. that made me decidedly uncomfortable from the start, and these were NOT the discomforts that comes with challenge and growth, but the discomfort that comes with knowing that something is wrong.

Here are just a few of the clear contrasts I saw:

1) You could disagree with her. You could not disrupt the class, but if someone brought up a point that she hadn't considered, she would acknowledge it. She would admit that she didn't have all the answers. She discouraged people from being dependent on her. She would encourage people to meditate and find their own answer, and may even comment that she was going to meditate on the topic in question herself.

2). If you told her that her class was not working for you, she would give you a hug, and wish you well in finding your path. She always stressed that there were many valid paths, and that it was not "one size fits all."

3) If someone left the group, she would NOT hound them with calls to get them back in. She would not dis that person or discourage her students from associating with that person. If that person later returned to the group, they were welcomed back without scolding.

My involvement with L.E. actually overlapped my involvement with her. While she did not try to discourage my involvement with L.E., when I decided to end my involvement with L.E., I asked her about it. It was then that she told me that she had gone to a Landmark introduction once, long ago. She told me that she had NOT signed up for the forum, because when she was there, she had detected many "hooks." She warned me that, if I left, they would try to pull me back in. They did. My leaving was followed by many phone calls, and even a ploy where they called me, and said that my ILP program was about to start. I had NOT signed up for the ILP, and had, in fact, bluntly told them that I was not interested.
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Sexual Depravity in Gratitude Training. Same in Landmark?

November 11, 2017, 3:39 pm
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Passing on a post I see today. Do these things go on it Landmark as well?

"All these people are so appalled by Hollywood Actors being outed as pervs, the lastest being Louis C.K. I wonder what people will think when all the dirt that happens in Gratitude Training comes out. Swinger groups, naked parties, senors hooking up with students and a den of pick up artists and stretches, where people get naked in front of a room full of people. There is even a secret facebook page where Gratitude Training graduates share naked pictures of themselves with each other. Some that work for the company have been the biggest swingers of all.

I'd like to see some of these 'it's all your interpretation' people answer for where they've lead people and the innocent lives they've ruined. Let their activities be known publicly, if they're so comfortable!

Here's Gratitude Training's "Sexual Healing Workshop". Should trainer F.R. really be facilitating anything about relationships or sexuality?"
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Re: Klemmer and Associates

November 11, 2017, 3:41 pm
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The transformation exercises - the LGAT process - is a function of the facilitator energy, how they hold the room and the actual design of the classes. Since they all seem to copy from each other dating back to the 70s.

Now comes how the "facilitators" hold their "beingness" and handles resistance and upsets. This is where it gets scary.

Klemmer and Associates has Scott Pullan ( who claims to be a marketing director for klemmer in 2002 is just a bold lie, we knew who worked there in 2002) - so you have a fibber or like Brian Klemmer a person who stretches the truth debriefing an emotional workshop. He was a network marketing executive - creme de le creme of american business talent!

You have John Edwards who for 30 resentful years invested and wasted his life in the pulp and paper industry. He has since freed himself and buried hiself with endorsements ( you can pay for maxwells ) , and training from Grioux and company. "Lipstick on a pig" or repackaging, even angrier now that he has no one building his lifeQuest seminars.

Then you have Kimberly Zink as the nominal cult head now that Brian has moved on . Kimberly zink has an insurance and network marketing background. Any of you pay a life insurance sales person for Psychotherapy, theology, mental health assistance ? You do now at Klemmer Associates - all dressed up and standing in front of the room with a big smile, knowing on the last day Zink and Zellmer will be dipping into your savings with LOVE and a SMILE!

Klemmer and Associates is a train wreck waiting to happen, their most experienced facilitators left to form their own companies. Their CEO ran a nail salon and now provides strategic guidance to that cult!!

Becareful of your wallet and mental helath, Klemmer Samurai cult peddlers like Zink and Zellmer want both in the name of personal development!!
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Re: Social media Addiction used to enhance LGATs after seminar?

November 11, 2017, 3:50 pm
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Carboy wrote:

"More and more, we are ready to recognize the extent to which our
behavior and decision making is being affected by social media."

Yes, and anything seen on social media definitely needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

One of the things that scares me about this is that we really have no idea of who is actually sitting at that other, unseen computer. I have especially noticed myself wondering about this in posts that seem race-baiting, gay-bashing, or any attack on entire groups of people. Someone claiming to be a person of color, and making extremely inflammatory posts about whites, for example, could actually be an old Klukker sitting at the computer in his underwear, trying to stir the pot.

Then people who have had their buttons pushed react, which it seems was the intent of the post to begin with. LGATS seem calculated to have the same effect. In fact, L.E. forum leaders have been known to declare to an entire room, "I could piss you all off in about 10 seconds!"

They are black belt button-pushers.
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Re: PSI Seminars: Legal Action?

November 12, 2017, 9:23 am
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True2myth-

There are too many LGATs and groups that follow this model to list and keep up with it seems. Not sure what kind of investigation for cult practices you are referring to. As far as these groups go, unless there is abuse etc, nothing is illegal in what they do. Every adult that attends is capable of deciding to stay in the group or not. Here is where we must get creative in making a change. Filing a complaint is a great place to start and should be done, however, as these groups have been around for decades, the complaints are obviously not enough.
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Grand Jury needed to investigate years of inaction on NXIVM

November 12, 2017, 2:52 pm
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Residents of New York City and New York State:

It is time to convene a federal grand jury to investigate why multiple agencies
in New York state have ignored years of warnings about NXIVM

Women who were branded by a doctor in NXIVM submitted complaints to the NY state medical board and were ignored.

Now it turns out police also ignored reports from former members of NXIVM.


Law enforcement has fielded NXIVM complaints for years
No indication multiple agencies ever launched deep probes of self-help organization

[www.timesunion.com]

Corboy:

NY taxpayers -- you've received piss poor customer service for your tax dollars.

Demand a grand jury investigation.
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Re: Landmark concept of love and sex - are they two different concepts?

November 13, 2017, 12:55 pm
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I think sex and love are two very different things.
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Re: anyone have experience with Non-Violent communication (nvc)?

November 13, 2017, 12:56 pm
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How can one tell if a person is part of NVC without being told?
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Re: Landmark concept of love and sex - are they two different concepts?

November 13, 2017, 1:05 pm
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cryst-oh Wrote:
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> I think sex and love are two very different
> things.


They are. I have no argument with that. The problem I have, (along with many others), is in ihe context of marriage or significant other relationships. In these relationships, most people prefer monogamy. This preference seems to be hard-wired into the majority of the population, and is evident in many species of animals,as well.
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Re: Landmark concept of love and sex - are they two different concepts?

November 14, 2017, 5:20 am
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Again, I agree completely with kdag. After my ex attended Landmark our sexual relationship changed significantly. Sex seemed to become almost mechanical and/or animalistic as opposed to intimate from a loving base. Since our seperation only 2.5 months ago I know he has slept with fellow Landmark participants who also happen to be his subordinates at work. It is very very wrong.
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Re: Landmark concept of love and sex - are they two different concepts?

November 14, 2017, 2:28 pm
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cryst-oh,

What you may be lacking here is context. Married people go into LGATS, and often end up with their marriages falling apart.

There are many different types of love, and in most, a sexual relationship would be inappropriate. In the context of a life partner, a monogamous sexual relationship is healthy, expected and normal.

I don't care what people on the outside of my S.O. relationship do with their sex lives, as long as they keep their hands off MY partner, and those of others who are in comitted, monogamous relatioships.

If someone goes into a relationship with the agreement that there are no strings attached - fine! I don't care if they want to pile up as many people as they can get onto the bed.

It does get dicey when the wife just had a baby four months ago, based on her husband's vows to be faithful and forsake all others, only to have him come home from an LGAT and declare that he wants an open marriage. This was NOT what she has agreed to, or was promised. If she can't live with that, she is then left holding the bag for the next 20 years.

The cheating partner can also be the wife, but I am just giving this example, because I have seen an appalling number of young girls talked into having kids that they were not ready for, based on some guy's promise to always be there, and to be faithful. Then, in addition to the infidelity, the LGAT takes up more and more of his time.

To top it all off, the narcissism encouraged by LGATS can also inspire the newly cheating, abandoning spouse to not even attempt to be there as a co-parent, because they throw in the excuse, "I have too much of my own stuff to deal with, right now." They ignore the fact that their soon-to-be ex-spouse has their own stuff to deal with, as well, but still has to be there for the child. What single parent ever hasn't?!?

And these organizations are always on their respective soapboxes telling people to be in integrity, keep their promises and honor their commitments!
I think that should start at home!
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Re: Landmark concept of love and sex - are they two different concepts?

November 14, 2017, 3:21 pm
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Also, as pointed out by Throughmyeyes, to even hint that subordinates at work should have relations with a supervisor or boss is a glaring ethical violation. I would imagine that someone will eventually sue. Maybe that will help to bring more public exposure to the dark underbelly of these LGATS.
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Re: Landmark concept of love and sex - are they two different concepts?

November 14, 2017, 7:33 pm
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Okay, I'll just go ahead and paste these links. Sam Vaknin can be gross but informative.  This is basically what you'll get. They will withhold, and don't care how it was for you because  many prefer onanism over the real thing anyway.

[samvak.tripod.com]

[blogs.psychcentral.com]
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